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2016 List Management Thread
#1
At the midway point of the season, it's time for my trademark to return.

This thread is to discuss list changes going forward into next season.

I should point out that I remain optimistic we will have a new coach to start next season and my list is based on that coach coming in with the expectation that we perform as required this year, ie top 4, and I am therefore basing my list management on that.

If the new coach decides to rebuild or Hardwick is allowed to continue then obviously the scenario becomes quite different.

I've split the list into 4 categories:

Core players: Untouchable, failing a miracle offer, the sort only we are likely to offer.

List players: Will remain on list but would consider the right trade, as opposed to seeking it.

Trade bait: Players we actively seek to trade.

Delist: Players whose time is up, regardless of any trade interest.

Core players:

Martin, Riewoldt, Deledio, Cotchin, Rance.

No surprises there.

List Players:

Astbury, Batchelor, Conca, Chaplin, Drummond, Edwards, B. Ellis, C. Ellis, Griffiths, Grigg, Grimes, Lambert, Lloyd, Markov, McBean, McIntosh, Menadue, Miles, Morris, Rioli, Townsend, Vickery, Vlaustuin.

Vickery and McBean may surprise here but I feel a new coach can produce with both. Chaplin is still our best option as a gorilla defender so gets another year. Morris I felt had done enough to show if he is used properly can be important, I also toyed with putting B. Ellis on the trade table.

Trade Bait:

Houli, Hunt, Yarran, Lennon

First three have year(s) left contracted and would otherwise be seen below. Lennon will probably leave anyway so is a proactive one.

Delist:

Broad, Butler, Maric, McKenzie, A Moore, Elton, Hunt, Hampson

The obvious one here is it cleans out our two ruck options but Maric is cooked and Hampson is hopeless. The others pick themselves and I would look at clearing Hunt's spot regardless of trade by paying out his contract. Broad and Butler both unlucky and would be considered for rookie spots.

Rookies:
Jayden Short - second year - Promoted
Jason Castagna - Promoted
Callum Moore - first year.
Mabior Chol - first year.
Adam Marcon - first year.
Ivan Soldo - Promoted

This would leave us with up to 5 draft picks, subject to any other trades we were able to do. We would need to secure a ready made ruckman via trade or free agency and hope that Soldo/Vickery/McBean/Griffiths could step up as a reserve.

Our round one side would look something like:

B:Grimes Chaplin Batchelor
HB:Vlastuin Rance C. Ellis
C: Drummond Martin B Ellis
HF: Deledio Vickery Edwards
F: Lloyd Riewoldt Lambert
R: Zac Clarke Cotchin Miles

Inter: McBean, Grigg, Rioli, Short
If you're committed enough, you can make any story work.

I once told a woman I was Kevin Costner, and it worked because I believed it.
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#2
thebigricho, post: 1475003, member: 9766 Wrote:At the midway point of the season, it's time for my trademark to return.

This thread is to discuss list changes going forward into next season.

I should point out that I remain optimistic we will have a new coach to start next season and my list is based on that coach coming in with the expectation that we perform as required this year, ie top 4, and I am therefore basing my list management on that.

If the new coach decides to rebuild or Hardwick is allowed to continue then obviously the scenario becomes quite different.

I've split the list into 4 categories:

Core players: Untouchable, failing a miracle offer, the sort only we are likely to offer.

List players: Will remain on list but would consider the right trade, as opposed to seeking it.

Trade bait: Players we actively seek to trade.

Delist: Players whose time is up, regardless of any trade interest.

Core players:

Martin, Riewoldt, Deledio, Cotchin, Rance.

No surprises there.

List Players:

Astbury, Batchelor, Conca, Chaplin, Drummond, Edwards, B. Ellis, C. Ellis, Griffiths, Grigg, Grimes, Lambert, Lloyd, Markov, McBean, McIntosh, Menadue, Miles, Morris, Rioli, Townsend, Vickery, Vlaustuin.

Vickery and McBean may surprise here but I feel a new coach can produce with both. Chaplin is still our best option as a gorilla defender so gets another year. Morris I felt had done enough to show if he is used properly can be important, I also toyed with putting B. Ellis on the trade table.

Trade Bait:

Houli, Hunt, Yarran, Lennon

First three have year(s) left contracted and would otherwise be seen below. Lennon will probably leave anyway so is a proactive one.

Delist:

Broad, Butler, Maric, McKenzie, A Moore, Elton, Hunt, Hampson

The obvious one here is it cleans out our two ruck options but Maric is cooked and Hampson is hopeless. The others pick themselves and I would look at clearing Hunt's spot regardless of trade by paying out his contract. Broad and Butler both unlucky and would be considered for rookie spots.

Rookies:
Jayden Short - second year - Promoted
Jason Castagna - Promoted
Callum Moore - first year.
Mabior Chol - first year.
Adam Marcon - first year.
Ivan Soldo - Promoted

This would leave us with up to 5 draft picks, subject to any other trades we were able to do. We would need to secure a ready made ruckman via trade or free agency and hope that Soldo/Vickery/McBean/Griffiths could step up as a reserve.

Our round one side would look something like:

B:Grimes Chaplin Batchelor
HB:Vlastuin Rance C. Ellis
C: Drummond Martin B Ellis
HF: Deledio Vickery Edwards
F: Lloyd Riewoldt Lambert
R: Zac Clarke Cotchin Miles

Inter: McBean, Grigg, Rioli, Short


Not too bad mate but I'd make a couple of changes >>

Firstly if you're gonna delist Hunt then it'll make it hard to trade him Wink

Secondly , no AFL team will give us a brass razoo for Houli so he should be named among your delistings.

Last but not least... Zac Clarke is a shitful player.


[COLOR=rgb(255, 255, 255)] [/COLOR] THOSE MIGHTY TIGERS !
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#3
So you've taken a step backwards with Chaplin, brought in a terrible ruckman to replace a mostly useless one, and done little else.
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#4
Also noticed you've dropped Griff...
But it's poor form to criticise without solutions so...
thebigricho, post: 1475003, member: 9766 Wrote:At the midway point of the season, it's time for my trademark to return.

This thread is to discuss list changes going forward into next season.

I should point out that I remain optimistic we will have a new coach to start next season and my list is based on that coach coming in with the expectation that we perform as required this year, ie top 4, and I am therefore basing my list management on that.

If the new coach decides to rebuild or Hardwick is allowed to continue then obviously the scenario becomes quite different.

I've split the list into 4 categories:

Core players: Untouchable, failing a miracle offer, the sort only we are likely to offer.

List players: Will remain on list but would consider the right trade, as opposed to seeking it.

Trade bait: Players we actively seek to trade.

Delist: Players whose time is up, regardless of any trade interest.

Core players:

Martin, Riewoldt, Deledio, Cotchin, Rance.

No surprises there.

List Players:

Astbury, Batchelor, Conca, Chaplin, Drummond, Edwards, B. Ellis, C. Ellis, Griffiths, Grigg, Grimes, Lambert, Lloyd, Markov, McBean, McIntosh, Menadue, Miles, Morris, Rioli, Townsend, Vickery, Vlaustuin.

Vickery and McBean may surprise here but I feel a new coach can produce with both. Chaplin is still our best option as a gorilla defender so gets another year. Morris I felt had done enough to show if he is used properly can be important, I also toyed with putting B. Ellis on the trade table.

Trade Bait:

Houli, Hunt, Yarran, Lennon

First three have year(s) left contracted and would otherwise be seen below. Lennon will probably leave anyway so is a proactive one.

Delist:

Broad, Butler, Maric, McKenzie, A Moore, Elton, Hunt, Hampson

The obvious one here is it cleans out our two ruck options but Maric is cooked and Hampson is hopeless. The others pick themselves and I would look at clearing Hunt's spot regardless of trade by paying out his contract. Broad and Butler both unlucky and would be considered for rookie spots.

Rookies:
Jayden Short - second year - Promoted
Jason Castagna - Promoted
Callum Moore - first year.
Mabior Chol - first year.
Adam Marcon - first year.
Ivan Soldo - Promoted

This would leave us with up to 5 draft picks, subject to any other trades we were able to do. We would need to secure a ready made ruckman via trade or free agency and hope that Soldo/Vickery/McBean/Griffiths could step up as a reserve.

Our round one side would look something like:

B:Grimes Chaplin Batchelor
HB:Vlastuin Rance C. Ellis
C: Drummond Martin B Ellis
HF: Deledio Vickery Edwards
F: Lloyd Riewoldt Lambert
R: Zac Clarke Cotchin Miles

Inter: McBean, Grigg, Rioli, Short
Core players yep, pretty obvious.
List players. You would have to consider good trades for anyone on this list except Grimes. I'd add him to core list.
The two that need to be shopped hard are B Ellis and Vickery. Griff could also be traded if he continues to add value and we are looking at Josh Jenkins.
The Astbury trade opp has passed so he is locked into the second tall/lock down defender role with Chaplin gone (a year too late).

Also, just delist Chaplin Batch and McBean.

B: c Ellis Grimes Astbury
HB:Vlastuin Rance McIntosh
C: Grigg Martin Prestia
HF: Deledio Riewoldt Edwards
F: Lloyd Jenkins Lambert
R: Hampson Cotchin Miles

Inter: lennon, Rioli, conca, Griff
Emg: J short, menadue, Drummond
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#5
I think we should go for a "mini" rebuild. As Kirk Lazarus famously said, never go full rebuild. You'll go home empty-handed.

[MEDIA=youtube]7wVagQ_LVd4[/MEDIA]

Core players

Riewoldt, Rance, Deledio, Martin, Cotchin

List Players

Edwards, Grigg, Lloyd, Yarran, Grimes, Griffiths, Lambert, Miles, Townsend, McIntosh, Vlastuin, Lennon, Rioli, McBean, Markov, Menadue, Drummond, C. Ellis

Trade Bait

Vickery, Astbury, B. Ellis, Conca, Houli

Delist

Maric, Chaplin, Morris, Hunt, A. Moore, Batchelor, Elton, Hampson, McKenzie, Butler, Broad

Promote Short and Castagna.

With rookies, that would clear out a third of the list in one year. We would be moving on all those players I feel will either not make it, are not up to standard or who we will get greater value from by way of a trade. We retain talent, youth and experience.
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#6
Vines, post: 1475012, member: 5754 Wrote:Also noticed you've dropped Griff...
But it's poor form to criticise without solutions so...

Core players yep, pretty obvious.
List players. You would have to consider good trades for anyone on this list except Grimes. I'd add him to core list.
The two that need to be shopped hard are B Ellis and Vickery. Griff could also be traded if he continues to add value and we are looking at Josh Jenkins.
The Astbury trade opp has passed so he is locked into the second tall/lock down defender role with Chaplin gone (a year too late).

Also, just delist Chaplin Batch and McBean.

B: c Ellis Grimes Astbury
HB:Vlastuin Rance McIntosh
C: Grigg Martin Prestia
HF: Deledio Riewoldt Edwards
F: Lloyd Jenkins Lambert
R: Hampson Cotchin Miles

Inter: lennon, Rioli, conca, Griff
Emg: J short, menadue, Drummond
Very Close Tommy, I strongly suspect Brandon will be a must keep by seasons end. I wouldn't be getting rid of Houli as I think he will be a different player under a different coach. I would question Lloyd's inclusion in the team, like him, like his endeavour but doubt he would get a game in any other top side. Astbury, McIntosh, Hampson and Lambert are yet to convince me they can play in a grand final.
But, lot's needs to happen in the near future, so exciting times ahead.
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#7
[USER=5974]@Broadsword[/USER] I'd note that from the games I've seen McBean play in the 2s that he's a bit lucky to be a list player.
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#8
Rumpole, post: 1475016, member: 6364 Wrote:[USER=5974]@Broadsword[/USER] I'd note that from the games I've seen McBean play in the 2s that he's a bit lucky to be a list player.

Agreed, he's had ample opportunity to show some hunger for a chance and apart from the odd good game he basically appears to be too lazy. Should get what we can for him.
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#9
black, post: 1475009, member: 5108 Wrote:Firstly if you're gonna delist Hunt then it'll make it hard to trade him Wink

Secondly , no AFL team will give us a brass razoo for Houli so he should be named among your delistings.

Last but not least... Zac Clarke is a shitful player.

As I said, I'd delist Hunt if (when) there was no interest for him as a trade. The problem is he and Houli are contracted until 2017 so you can't afford to do it with both as it will count in the salary cap. Hunt is on less and less use so he goes and Houli stays. Another feather in Blair's cap.

Clarke is just there as an example as he is a free agent, we need to do better but he is certainly an upgrade on Hampson.


Vines, post: 1475011, member: 5754 Wrote:So you've taken a step backwards with Chaplin, brought in a terrible ruckman to replace a mostly useless one, and done little else.

I don't see Chaplin as a step backwards, obviously. I think he joins the growing club of players that have had their careers sabotaged by Hardwick's inadequacies. His season has been derailed by the nonsense of playing forward in the preseason.

Does he get exposed one-on-one? Absolutely but so do most defenders when things break down up the field, but when our defence works best Chaplin is in it.

The reason I've done little else is I saw this list as top 4 material preseason and I still do. I believe a new coach could produce that with this side. It would be nice to add a Prestia etc but I'd be equally happy to go in with that set-up and land a free agent the following year when we would really be having a crack at a flag, as well as having an off-field set-up that might actually land a FA.

Vines, post: 1475012, member: 5754 Wrote:Also noticed you've dropped Griff...

He and Astbury are the unlucky ones in my set-up for sure but I give McBean and Chaplin first crack.


Rumpole, post: 1475016, member: 6364 Wrote:[USER=5974]@Broadsword[/USER] I'd note that from the games I've seen McBean play in the 2s that he's a bit lucky to be a list player.

Althom, post: 1475017, member: 9618 Wrote:Agreed, he's had ample opportunity to show some hunger for a chance and apart from the odd good game he basically appears to be too lazy. Should get what we can for him.

I can't agree on McBean. If he has attitudinal issues I can quite understand. He is a victim of Hardwick's tendency to bash kids at selection and avoid any tough calls.

McBean came into the side and was dropped the next week. Came back the following week and played a serviceable game, looked very good in patches and our forward structure looked much improved with him in it. He was then dropped the following week and never seen again.

He has been badly managed and should certainly have played more games than he has. I'd like to see him have the chance to string some games together at AFL level and see what he can produce under a new coaching regime.
If you're committed enough, you can make any story work.

I once told a woman I was Kevin Costner, and it worked because I believed it.
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#10
thebigricho, post: 1475025, member: 9766 Wrote:I can't agree on McBean. If he has attitudinal issues I can quite understand. He is a victim of Hardwick's tendency to bash kids at selection and avoid any tough calls.

McBean came into the side and was dropped the next week. Came back the following week and played a serviceable game, looked very good in patches and our forward structure looked much improved with him in it. He was then dropped the following week and never seen again.

He has been badly managed and should certainly have played more games than he has. I'd like to see him have the chance to string some games together at AFL level and see what he can produce under a new coaching regime.

Could be but if his inconsistency and lack of intensity at VFL level is a result of bad management then he may be better off in an entirely new environment if Hardwick doesn't go. He's also still very much a stringbean so you've got to wonder what training regime they've got him on. Should have bulked up by now.
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