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2012 List Management thread (including trade and free agency talk)
#1
At this stage here are my thoughts. Chance of being delisted at the end of the year in order.

MacDonald
Connors
Webberley
Helbig
White
Moore
McGuane
Graham
Browne
Dea
Derrickx

Probably about 4 or 5 delistings will come from that bunch.
"Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligiable propositions." Thomas Jefferson
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#2
Dmactiger, post: 412249, member: 644 Wrote:Probably about 4 or 5 delistings will come from that bunch.
Interesting list and if I had to guess 5, I would say these are the ones:

MacDonald (doesn't want it)
Connors (could be delisted now)
White (natural improvement of list
Moore (unfortunately)

and whoever has least impact in 2012 out of Browne/Graham/Derrickx
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#3
Nightblade081, post: 412267, member: 2240 Wrote:My vote goes to Graham as trade bait to either Gold Coast or GWS. Both will be needing another Ruckman, GWS more so, as their other main ruckman only have a year left in them. Gold Coast do have Gorringe, but GWS have nobody. It has already been well publicised that GWS are looking for a young-ish ruckman with some ability. We also know that Graham asked to be traded last year. It is highly likely that there will be a few GWS players who get homesick, and so I say why not make the trade?
There is no chance of Graham going to Gold Coast, as they already have Smith, Fraser, Gorringe and Hickey. I see only a very slim chance of him going to GWS, as they'll probably recruit a No.1 type ruckmen (eg Jamar), and they'd rate Giles as their No.2, along with Brogan. I do not believe any of Graham, Browne or Derickx have any currency at the moment on the trade table, although that could change during the season

I'm surprised you put Helbig in that list, D Mac, as the footy dept appear to rate him fairly highly. I'd say there's no chance he'd be delisted.

These are the guys I believe are most under the gun, currently, from the footy dept for delistment at year's end, in order (not my preferences):

1.MacDonald
2. Moore
3.Connors
4.Graham
5. Webberley
6. White

[then a gap to]

7. McGuane
8. Browne
9. Derickx
10.Tuck

I don't think anyone outside those 10 will be delisted. Almost any of those 10 could save themselves with their performances over the coming months. Of the 10 names I'd say 6 or 7 will go, to make way for the possibility of:

4 in the national draft
1 delisted player picked up through free agency (thus no need for the PSD)
1 free agency player (8 or 10 yr player at another club)
1 player traded for (and another player traded out?)
1 upgraded rookie*

*Newman could be a vet outside the list, opening up 1 spot as well.
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#4
Heslin is off the rookie list

Miller may go
Webberley could be one if he does hold a regular spot
Griffiths may go if the club thinks his injuries cannot be overcome
Dea and Jackson even though they have more years on contract - just means we have to pay out the contract
Edwards could be traded
2017 Advocate for the Rising Star Jack Graham
Those who don't believe in magic will never find it. Ronald Dahl 1978
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#5
Bit too soon for list management type threads but anyhow I'd say it's pretty cut and dry. Players to develop would be anyone who has only been on the list for 1-4 years max
Players to axe at years end would be anyone who has been on the list for over 4 years and has not shown any real signs of major improvement. Here's a few who'll need a BIG year to survive past 2012 and personally I can't see any of them doing it.


Graham
McGuane
Edwards
Jackson
Connors
Browne
White
Post
Webberley
+ Miller


[COLOR=rgb(255, 255, 255)] [/COLOR] THOSE MIGHTY TIGERS !
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#6
Claw, post: 412282, member: 2241 Wrote:Considering such a high turnover, how long do you think it would take new comers to gel into the stable, consistant team we will need top 4 to Grand finalists? At what stage do you see us stopping high turnovers and only topping up the list with young players for development after our 1st for a long time Premiership win? Smile

Have a look at the the regular top 4 sides over the last 10years. They all had 8 to 12 players with 100 games +. Not necessarily the stars but mostly good solid players.

We have three in Lids Newman and Foley.

We have three others in Miller, Tuck and Jackson who I do not think meet the grade.

Then there is only 5 others who could make 100 games this year. Jack, iMaric and Shed seem likely. McGuane and White are in same category as Miller Tuck Jackson

The following year only King, Grigg and Cotchin have a chance of making that mark

So at the end of next year we will have 9 players in that category - albeit with Newman in the departure lounge

So to answer your question it is not the players we pick up this year (outside of trades in) that will make us a stable, consistent team it is the 100+game players plus Martin, Rance, Vickery, Conca, Grimes, Nahas, Houli, Ellis, Batchelor

What is clear is we still do not have the depth in quality.

My knock on Tuck, Jackson and McGuane is that yes they can play football but they continue to make errors that cost us. Errors that we can find other players will not make.

Players like White and Edwards do not get enough of the ball. We should find players that have the same abilities but can also find more of the ball.

So this year still needs a high number turnover if we are to build the depth needed to be a consistent top 4 side.

And then when we are a top 4 side we still need to bring quality footballers into the team to replace the retiring stars

Take Lids for instance. Signed 5 year deal which takes him to 30 in 2017. We need to find a replacement for him this year so that 18 year old will be 23/24 and hitting full output in 2017
2017 Advocate for the Rising Star Jack Graham
Those who don't believe in magic will never find it. Ronald Dahl 1978
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#7
You will know who's going bye bye 100% after round 5
The way we played last week we hopefully get a win over the dees and 4 losses
So if guys like Mc Guane, White, Graham havnt been giving a game by then it's bye bye time
ADVOCATE OF THE TACKLING AND PRESSURE MACHINE DANIEL RIOLI
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#8
Claw, post: 412355, member: 2241 Wrote:Who wants to put up other potential flag team players in Saturdays game so others can observe and comment. Feeling a bit lonely here.

Lots of players plateau, or go backwards, or show potential that may or may not be realised. It's hard to judge this.

I think we have 3 "big" holes in our current best 22. These may be filled by players already on the list.
  • CHB
  • A classy, tough, defensive mid who can tag, but also be damaging either through possessions or clearances (Scott Selwood, Carazzo are two of the best at this at the moment)
  • A lead up marking HFF (3rd tall)
We picked up guys in the draft who may eventually fill some of these roles, but they will be a number of years away (Wright, Darrou, Elton, O'Hanlon, Arnot). We will go back to the trade table and free agency table this year to look for ready made solutions, especially to the CHB issue, unless we see Post or Griffiths or someone else stand up.

Go back to this time last year and we had at least 3 more of these "big" holes.
  • Lock-down back pocket
  • Creative roving small forward
  • Ruckman
We went to the draft and picked up A.Maric and Gibson as potential creative roving small forwards. We traded in a ready to go ruckmen and we traded in and drafted a few guys in Morris, Ellis etc who could potentially fill the lock down small defender role, this position is still a bit of a hole, but we are trying to fill it through these guys, or developing Helbig or Dea, it's clearly high in the agenda.

We also need more class and skill and poise across all the lines.

So my point is to your question, that I look at the list and the best 22 in the way of looking at the obvious holes as oppossed to the obvious players who may be in our next premiership. It's too difficult to predict that.

I do think however, that we have a good number of players who can take us forward. Some players who are still very young and still need to play consistently, but have the potential to be elite. (Cotchin, Martin, Vickery, Conca, Rance to name 5). We already have Riewoldt and Deledio who are elite.

I think we have a bunch of role players (Houli, Grigg, Jackson, Nahas, King, Edwards, Miller etc), who are either going to continue doing those roles or be upgraded. However, if they are upgraded either through their own improvement or the team's elite/potential elite improving around them and therefore lifting the team and/or a classier player overtakes them it will be a good thing for the team as a whole. The biggest thing also is to have the core of the team playing together for a number of years and to have over half your best 22 with 100+ games experience.

The biggest beef I have is when people say things about players in our team not getting a game in other teams, or players from the successful teams being so much better individually than our players. It's not about that, it's about playing as a team. There have been a number of examples of players playing in successful teams who look like they have the goods, but when they move to another team that don't have the elite players to play consistently and support them they start to look ordinary and could have statements made about them like "they'd never get a game in a top team" yet they were. Prismall is a prime example. We have to get our elite and potential elite players to play consistently and the role players to consistently play their roles and the team will improve.


Claw, post: 412381, member: 2241 Wrote:To give us an odds on chance we will need to look at Collingwood's deficiencies.

Of interest to me is our back line and what we will do with Cloke.

Thoughts?

The fact that we have gone in with only two tall key defenders worries me, but at the same time it must mean they have a clear plan to play team defence on Cloke and Dawes. Players dropping back in front, getting in the dangerous space and going third man up. We can then run it out. It's a big risk, but it may work.
"I think Australians are big-hearted and open-minded people, and embracing same-sex marriage is just a logical extension of who we are. I can't wait to celebrate the weddings of ALL my friends in the coming years. It's time." Rachael Taylor

Proud Co-Advocate of Reece Conca and Tyrone Vickery in 2013
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#9
This thread has started me thinking about a number of things, one being what is it about the top teams that have have tipped them over the edge.
The realization has been you cant progress to the top four without recruiting a gun from another team or landing some good father son concessions.
Case in point Carlton, yes they had a series of top 10 draft picks and tanked but it was Judd who has given them the extra quality, Collingwood have got some great players but it was Jolly and Ball that gave them the extra quality they needed to take the next step, we all know about Geelong's father son pick ups and also Cam Mooney gave them a huge shot in the arm. What do we have ? Houli is a great pick up but isnt of that elite player mold Grigg far from it also Miller and A.Maric no again role players.

Our current methods for recruitment are well lets be honest hit and miss, now before people start typing how far we have come with our recruitment hold back. We are competing with all of the other clubs so we would be mad in thinking that we have an edge that will win us a premiership yes we may out recruit all other teams this year but to reach the top you need a 3-4 year period of top notch recruitment to be better than all of the other clubs. With GWS and GCS there is no way we have won those battles over the last two years and we again wont in 2012 or 2013.

We need to as a club move heaven and earth at seasons end and lure not 1 but 2 guns from other clubs now IMHO one needs to be a class midfielder a stand out player who sits of the back of pack a real general dare i say it (we wont get him but) a Hodge type perhaps Goddard is just that player perhaps not but money needs to be found loop holes exploited to get a class 25-28 year old. The second needs to be a vet backman 27-29 year old they wont be as expensive but will still need to be sold on the Tigers cause now the talk is we need a CHB while it would be ideal I dont think its a given an older statesman somebody with a cool head to work with our younger brigade is what we need somebody who can slot back there and support Newman in the leadership stakes who I haven't even started to think of names but it needs to happen.

Other clubs in this period will be starting to focus of GCS and GWS and the kids being shaken out of their systems, either the come home factor or the need to balance lists. This provides us with opportunity both these clubs will be looking for picks rather than players to ensure that they achieve their 3-4 year recruiting push other clubs who are looking to rebuild will be chasing these kids hard we may be able to use our compo pick to help lure one of these players to our club.

The second thing that this thread made me think about is how we rate our players as supporters DX is a prime example all of last year and the start of this year we as a collective group we talking about him like he would be an all Australian by the end of the year and we are still talking about him as the answer to all our problems where as he is just a young man who may or may not actually make it, Edwards, Collins last year, Graham, Griffith, Post do we have blinkers on when it comes to our players or just so much hope that we will players into myths that are better than they could ever actually be ?

Ok Saturday morning unload done with bring on the pies, we could could go winless for the rest of the year but if we beat the pies by 40pts I will be a happy Tigers Fan
[size="3"][color="#FF8C00"]4 years and counting[/color][/size]
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#10
I've moved 9 posts from a related March/April thread that was 9 pages long, with 70% of posts being unsuitable to the greater topic, to a new thread that should sustain us throughout the season: " 2012 List Management". This is one of those threads that gets very large, so please try to stay on-topic. The coaching panel will apply this rule to the thread to keep it efficient and relevant:
"The degree of intolerance for off-topic posting may also depend on the type of thread in which it is posted. The bigger and/or arguably more important threads have a lower degree of tolerance."
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